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Monday, October 18, 2010

Fwd: [bangla-vision] The new money system we are going to build Ellen Brown Anthony Migchels Franz Hörmann Vicky Davis etc



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dick Eastman <oldickeastman@q.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 4:03 AM
Subject: [bangla-vision] The new money system we are going to build Ellen Brown Anthony Migchels Franz Hörmann Vicky Davis etc
To:


 

 "If one creates money out of thin air and then  lends what did not exist  before, charging  interest and obtaining physical assets as  collateral, then that is in reality a model  for theft." 
  -- Dr. Prof. Franz Hörmann, University of Vienna
 
 
Note: "Creation  of  money out of thin air" is not by itself the problem.  The problem is the private  lending of these newly existing claims, the charging of interest and on them, and the obtaining of physical assets as collateral and  the power financiers to return money back into thin air  not leaving enough money in circulation for borrowers to meet their debt obligations and resulting transfer  wealth  produced in the business sector and earned  by the household sector ending up in the hands of  financial sector creditors whose only claim to it all  is their ability to manipulate credit with a monopoly in making our purchasing power appear and disappear at will. 
 
 
=====================================================
 
The After-the-Fed Solutions Debate Begins: Greenbackers vs. Goldbugs
 
Eric Blair

The battle to expose the Federal Reserve has been long and arduous. It finally appears that after nearly 100 years of absolute economic control and near complete debasement of the dollar, the Fed's reign may be coming to an end. Its eventual demise is certain according to Black Swan author Nassim Taleb and others. With all the recent mainstream talk and speculation about the end of the Fed, it is time to debate solutions for the future of America's currency. This may indeed be the most important discussion of our lifetime.
 


First, we must be aware that the Federal Reserve, along with other foreign private central banks and the IMF, have long had plans for a global currency.  This is not conspiracy theory mumbo-jumbo anymore, but rather cold hard fact.  Lew Rockwell wrote an excellent article summarizing the IMF's push for a global currency -- the Bancor.  The recent international currency war may be the beginning of creating a false demand for something more stable for international trade.  As all major currencies race to the bottom, the private banking cartel will surely offer their global solution.  We know what their solution will be -- continued debt slavery with more centralized control -- but what will the people's solution be?
 
 Gary North wants gold in our pockets
 
 
 Ellen  Brown is for fiat currency

There seems to be another currency war brewing right here in America.  The debate between the two most popular proposed solutions of adopting the Greenback or the Gold Standard has just officially begun. Last week, Gary North, a Goldbug and author of Honest Money, wrote a scathing attack of Web of Debt author Ellen Brown, a Greenbacker.  He took select samples from her book in an attempt to tie her public bank solution to Hitler, but failed to address the "interest-free" philosophy of her policy. Despite that, he does manage to frame the Goldbug's argument against the Greenback, or public banking, as inferior:

Brown is a Greenbacker. She is open about this. Most people have never heard of Greenbackism. It has been a fringe movement in American political life ever since the 1860s. The Greenback Party in the 1870s was the first American political party to come out in favor of a pure fiat money economy, a paper money system controlled by Congress with currency irredeemable in gold coins or silver coins.

 

The Greenbackers are committed to paper money. They are opposed to any form of gold standard. They are opposed to fractional reserve banking. They are opposed to central banking, unless the central bank is 100% owned and controlled by Congress.
 
A rebuttal piece was then written by Interest-Free Currency activist Anthony Michgel [actually spelled Migchels  -- DE ]  in defense of Brown and the Greenbackers where he goes after North and claims interest-bearing gold can never work:

What it is all about is the Goldbug people versus the Interest Free Money crowd. It is one of the most crucial debates around. As I have mentioned before both on this site and elsewhere, Gold is the preferred currency of the Banking Fraternity and they plan to reinstate it in their world currency, which is coming closer every day....

...North has managed to do something profoundly dishonest and unwise. In this enormous article of his he actually does not mention the problem of interest at all.

This is so totally unfair to Brown's work, because this is surely one of the most important aspects of her narrative....

Interest free money, either printed debt free by the Government or through interest free credit either by private organizations or again by the State, is simple, proven technology and centuries old.

Yes, many systems have been abused resulting in inflation.

No, interest bearing Gold is definitely not an acceptable solution.

Passions already seem to be running high in the opening round of this most critical debate that surely will shape the future of our economy and society.  Notably, both sides of this argument are in agreement that the Fed is a corrupt organization that must be ended.  North acknowledged that Ron Paul and Ellen Brown share this common ground, but says the Tea Party movement (liberty movement) has "no economic understanding" and "They cannot distinguish Ron Paul's opposition to the FED, based on the gold coin standard, from Ellen Brown's opposition, based on a fiat money standard. They are intellectually defenseless."

It seems a bit arrogant of North to suggest that the liberty movement is confused about why Ron Paul and Ellen Brown support ending the Fed, and it's also disingenuous to say that one side of the growing movement is "intellectually defenseless" because of disagreements about the solution. Especially when Brown's public banking movement appears to be immediately workable and is gaining ground as the first pragmatic step being to establish state banks -- as proven in North Dakota, which has a state-owned bank and boasts the lowest unemployment and the only budget surplus of the United States.


The public banking movement opposes the Federal Reserve, like Paul, because it is unconstitutional, but also for a variety of other intellectually defensible positions, starting with the fact that they are a private monopoly who care not for Americans or the country.  There are very real concerns that this group of banksters may maintain dominance of a gold-based system since they already have possession of most of the world's gold -- including much of the mining as well. Furthermore, if they can continue to create money on a fractional basis -- even if backed partially by gold -- and can continue to charge and determine interest, they'll still possess the power to enslave-by-debt people, industry, and entire nations.  Finally, the private profit motive of international banksters, driven by interest, has historically proven to encourage wars as evidenced by their funding of both sides of all wars.  This would also seem to give them dubious power to determine the outcome of those wars.

In turn, it's a given that the liberty movement supports the restoration of the Constitution which clearly states that the coinage of money shall be in gold and that only the elected Congress is authorized to issue and control it. However, the Constitution says nothing of allowing a fractional reserve gold standard run by private bankers which is promoted by some Goldbugs. Furthermore, some Constitutionalists still maintain the strange notion that the government should belong to the people.  Therefore, if we were able to restore the Constitutional principle for a government of, by and for the people, it would seem that interest-free currency issued and controlled by our elected government would be considered more constitutional than the current system.

It is true that gold has been valued in society for thousands of years and it will likely continue to maintain its terrific investment value for the foreseeable future. Gold clearly has a physical value derived from the incredible energy it requires to mine and refine it.  But gold, as a limited resource, is interest bearing and can be hoarded by those with the wherewithal to do so.  This would seem to suggest that gold could then be manipulated by the few who control vast sums of it.  And that sounds a lot like the economic tyranny we face today with the private Fed.

North attacks Greenbackers because they "are opposed to central banking, unless the central bank is 100% owned and controlled by Congress."  As if to say, how dare the people demand ownership of their own currency.  It shows a blinding distrust for Constitutional government and obvious preference for private banking interests.  Goldbugs seem caught up on the fact that a unit of exchange must have intrinsic value, either backed by gold or as an instrument of debt, or both. They feel so strongly that fiat currencies are utterly unreliable, but spend little time discussing the motive behind the interest and supply manipulators. Additionally, it is unfair to suggest that fiat currencies are not redeemable in gold, as any widely acceptable unit of exchange can be traded for gold.  Currently, one can buy an ounce of bullion for around 1400 Fed-deflated U.S. fiat Dollars.

I don't want people to get the wrong impression.  I believe gold is a great investment, especially in these turbulent times.  And I also believe gold has a place in securing America's currency. However, I worry that those who hold dear that a currency must be backed partially by gold in order to have legitimacy are susceptible to supporting a global currency if it includes gold as part of its currency basket.  Perhaps I'm naive, but I'm not sure why a combination of the two solutions is not feasible, with interest-free paper Greenbacks redeemable in gold or silver, while also producing silver and gold coins for circulation -- all tightly controlled by Congress, not a private organization, as per the Constitution.  After all, Fort Knox is supposed to be the people's gold, right?
 
 
 
===============================================================
 
From: Ellen Brown <>
Subject: New article
To:  Geraldine Perry ; Albert Opstad ; Stephen Zarlenga  . . .
Date: Friday, 15 October, 2010
 
Foreclosuregate:
Time to Break Up the Too-Big-to-Fail Banks?
 
 
Best wishes,
 
Ellen Brown
 
 

 
 
   Anthony Migchels
 
 

In defense of Ellen Brown

Gary North on Rockwell's site comes with a fairly vicious attack on Ellen Brown. He calls her a 'Greenbacker' as if that is something distasteful.

What it is all about is the Goldbug people versus the Interest Free Money crowd. It is one of the most crucial debates around. As I have mentioned before both on this site and elsewhere, Gold is the preferred currency of the Banking Fraternity and they plan to reinstate it in their world currency, which is coming closer every day.

North has compiled an enormously lengthy article with no less than 50 links to individual, detailed critiques to some of the statements in Ellen Brown's Web of Debt.
Some of them are fair, others are outrageous. Such as his defense of deflation. Not seeming to realize that Europe suffered protracted (semi) depressions for long periods of time right up to the Great Depression. While on the Gold Standard. All these were caused by structurally scarce gold.
The simpleminded defense of deflation as 'natural' without reviewing the very negative implications of deflation for the broader social and economic fabric is difficult to swallow. It is not that we cannot see the effects of deflation today.
North apparently does not realize that the Bankers always favor deflation. Because deflation makes their outstanding debts more valuable.

He also thinks it is cosmopolitan and streetwise to attack Brown for her nuanced approach to Hitler.

It is not. Although many people would sympathize with North (which he obviously expects and hopes to use to destroy Brown's credibility), it is simply politically correct and immature to do so. To understand Hitler, so we can learn to avoid people like him, we must understand what attracted others to him. Anybody with even marginally developed skills for independent thought can see that the treatment of Hitler in the post war era is a classic case of 'Sieger Justiz' and his current image has nothing to do with reality.

However, these are just minor points. Because North has managed to do something profoundly dishonest and unwise. In this enormous article of his he actually does not mention the problem of interest at all.

This is so totally unfair to Brown's work, because this is surely one of the most important aspects of her narrative.
North only mentions Brown wants to print fiat money. But not the kind we have today. She wants to print debt free and interest free money.

If ever I saw an elephant in the room being ignored it is this case by North.

A more detailed expose on interest is here, for here and now just a few reminders of what again this interest problem is:

The US Government at this point pays between 400 and 500 billion dollars in interest per year on the 'National Debt'. The trillions that the FED have created and will create to buy up Treasuries are interest bearing.

If you buy a house you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest for your mortgage. For money that was created by pushing a few buttons.

Forty percent of prices you pay are costs for capital. So just through prices for normal commodities you pay 40 % of your disposable income to banks and other financiers.

Who pays for all this? The 80% poorest of the population. The have nots pay interest, the haves receive it. We are talking a worldwide, yearly multi trillion wealth transfer from poor to rich through usury.

Gold is also interest bearing and that is only one reason why it is totally unacceptable as currency.

And most important: there is no reason at all, no necessity, no economic law of any kind that makes this necessary. It is only the power of the few and the lack of knowledge of the many that allow this to continue.

Yes, there are many rationalizations for interest. And I'll debunk them patiently time and again, because it is so necessary. But keeping the above in mind everybody can understand that what we have here is a simple, large scale fleecing of the multitude.

Anybody can see that if money is so ridiculously cheap to produce, it is simply outrageous that society needs to pay such mind boggling costs for it.

Interest free money, either printed debt free by the Government or through interest free credit either by private organizations or again by the State, is simple, proven technology and centuries old.

Yes, many systems have been abused resulting in inflation.

No, interest bearing Gold is definitely not an acceptable solution.

The solution is to fire and prosecute all those who mess up our money. The solution is to have a populace of which at least a few percent have a decent grasp of the money basics, which can be taught to all normally gifted people. The solution is to see the Bankers and their advocates for what and who they are.

To see that interest bearing Gold and interest bearing paper debts are just two sides of the same Central Banking hoax.

North expects to have fun with destroying Brown. To me it is simply annoying to have to point out simple facts like the above to people who can make such noise about their own monetary expertise.

 
 
 

"Banken erfinden Geld aus Luft"

def. Luft:  air
 
  Franz Hörmann
 
 
 

Jane Burgermeister writes

Franz Hörmann explains in crystal clear language how the money system works, why the financial system is a huge fraud, how the use of  balance sheets contributes to this fraud and why a gigantic crash is now approaching. He says the whole financial system could well collapse in the next three years.

The next step has to be to call to account the various bankers and politicians that know how this system operates and have engineered the banking subprime crisis in order to have a pretext to take liquidity out of the money supply, crash the economy, buy up assets for a pittance, get trillions in tax payer money as "bailouts" in return for worthless thin air paper debts as well as gigantic interest payments on the national debt that they and their politicians friends have created in an exact repeat of the economic events in the 1930s preceding the rise of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler.

The engineered curreny crisis is just another way to destroy economies based on exports even more, ignite hyperinflation and set up a world bank and world currency controlled by the big banks and Globalists.

The next step has to be to call to account the various bankers and politicians that know how this system operates and have engineered the banking subprime crisis in order to have a pretext to take liquidity out of the money supply, crash the economy, buy up assets for a pittance, get trillions in tax payer money as "bailouts" in return for worthless thin air paper debts as well as gigantic interest payments on the national debt that they and their politicians friends have created . . .

The engineered curreny crisis is just another way to destroy economies based on exports even more, ignite hyperinflation and set up a world bank and world currency controlled by the big banks and Globalists.

=======
 
Eastman notes on Franz Hörmann  -- some translation, some paraphrase, some extrapolation:  
 
"The model we use comes from the ancient Roman view rights and economic management.  The system of compound interest originates in the second millienium B.C.E. and the double-entry bookkeeping from the late 1400s.  There is not other aspect of our social life and our sciences where methods of that age are taken seriously and slavishly accepted.  However, it serves wonderfully to keep the power elite rich and powerful at the expense of all others and so nothing changes."
 
Today's catastrophe comes only from the banks.   Banks flood people with purchasing power during the credit expansion phase. "If one creates money out of thin air and then lends what did not exist  before, charging interest and obtaining physical assets as collateral, then  that is in reality a model for theft."   That's the secret of the banks.   Banks don't tell you where for example the interest paid to you for passbook savings accounts come from.   Because if they did, they would be admitting that it is all machinery for generating successful pyramid schemes. Using expansion of money supply to capture things belonging to others began with double-entry accounting. Because if someone buys a thing with money, then the money in truth has captured ownership and transferred it. The seller has the money, the buyer has the thing. Thin air has been traded for a thing.   Nevertheless we enter the transaction on the ledger and everything  balances.
 
In past years public confidence in the banks has been systematically abused by the banks. The model is one of institutionalized fraud.  A monopoly has been granted for the private creators of money to decide who gets the loans.  Those laons become the nations money in circulation.  However this same bank has the power to send the currency back into thin air  -- in fact there is a built in tendency for money to revert to thin air at greater an expense to the household and business sectors than the gain received from the loan.  No firm can profit at the expense of competing firms without the competing firms suffering a loss of revenue for having lost the economic competiton.  The profit is not a net gain to the business sector because the competitors have had a net loss  --  so if the profits of some firms are at the expense of losses to other firms -- then were does the money come from to pay the financial sector back an amount that is larger than the original loan by the amount of exponentially growing compound interest?  The financial sector must end by draining the other two sectors.  The entire nation must then be foreclosed and the financial sector (which in reality is also the foreign trade sector) ends up owning everything.  The forclosure is usually effected by a war, a civil war or a revoltuion -- with the new victor government replacing former middle class and receiving new loans from international bankers (called reconstruction loans) and the process begins again.
 
Why straighten ourselves with a private central bank producing the money supply through loans that serve the currency function?  Why allow this system to consistently contract the money supply through payback  to the financial sector of principal plus interest  which is always a much greater amount than the original bank loan deposit?   Deflation-induced bankruptcies must follow under this system.  And who ends up with the real assets?  Who else but the one who started with the power of creating money out of thin air.
 
 
=====================================================
 
Excerpts from two letters from Anthony Migchels
 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: MUST READ Presentation: WHY WE NEED MONETARY INNOVATION, abolishing usurious slavery for all time
 
. . .

I've been noticing for some time now that the Americans were simply not in touch with the interest issue. And I've been waiting for years for my chance, which has been coming through Henry [Makow].

It's just FANTASTIC that some are now making the link..

Like I said, if it were not for the Americans (you not being the least of them) I would never have known of about the zionist/banker/cabbalist connection.

You must understand that [Margit] Kennedy as a German will probably NEVER accept your narrative about the Jews because she is simply German. Very few can get through the brainwashing at this side of the Atlantic.
 
 
 
 
 
Anthony Migchel's second letter (excerpted below) refers to the following:
. . . . . .
 
 
Dick Eastman: 
 
Where I part company with Margit Kennedy is on what to do about it.  She is advocating regional currencies that will work along side a national currency that will work pretty much as our system does now.  I am for the immediate abolition of organized crime usury with total repudiation to all international banks --  and the cleaning up of the foreclosure mess is the perfect occasion to take out the big knife and excise all of this indeptedness which Dr. Kennedy has shown to be so fundamentally wrong for the human race.  My solution is one that Frau Kennedy has not included in her list of option -- and that solution is social credit.  Social credit does away with a debt-based money base.  It injects new money directly to households so that household demand will be so strong that domestic businesses will be so profitable that they can build and expand out of their own profits, and so that people will be able to save in savings banks with one hundred percent reserves so that the banks do not have to create new purchasing power with fractional reserves, but will simply lend from the savings that people deposit in order to gain interest.  People will deposit money in the bank, say for 3 percent on their deposits, and the bank will lend it out -- 100 percent backed by the savers' deposits, at 6 percent or more depending on the riskiness of the entrepreneur's enterprise.  This way there will be none of the hidden interest that Dr. Kennedy has shown us is locked into every price we pay.

Dr. Kennedy, while not a social crediter -- I do not know if she has heard of the concept -- has nonetheless burned the bridges for all of us on a return to finance capitalism (usury), the root of all evil.

My thanks to Dr. Anthony Migchels of the Netherlands for opening up to me -- and to social crediters -- this new and powerful analysis -- which goes well beyond (whether it is an elaboration or an innovation) the variations of the Douglas A + B theorem which we Social Crediters have been arguing from.

I'd say wer are not ready to sweep the world of usury -- and replace with with National Social Credit.
 
 
Excerpt from Anthony Migchels Letter #2:
 
I totally agree on where Dick parts with Kennedy.
 
 
It is very difficult for Germans, even Germans like Kennedy, to grasp what is at stake here. They see interest, but they cannot see 'Jewish International Bankers' (or whatever you call them).

But to anybody realizing we what we are dealing with here there can be only one conclusion:

'Complementary', interest free currencies have only one goal: destroying their interest bearing competitors, the national or supra national currencies. Whether these are Gold or Paper based is totally irrelevant.

Social Credit is one system, which is particularly feasible in the Anglo American context. With the above in mind it becomes clear what the real agenda, for as far as I'm concerned, is behind a 'regional currency'.

Since we have now the technology available to create currencies which allow both convertibility to euro AND interest free credit we can actually start competing with Euro/Dollar with these currencies.

And since cold economic logic learns that 'he with the lowest cost for capital wins', advanced interest free currencies will have free reign in a free market if run properly.

Anthony

--------------------
 
 Franz Hörmann
 
 

"Banken erfinden Geld aus Luft"

"Banks create money out of air"

Translation by Daniela Rom

 
Why the financial system is a model for fraud, what role balance sheets play and why the ultimate crash is impending: Vienna economics expert Franz Hörmann explains.

For Franz Hörmann, Professor at the Economics University in Vienna, the era of banks and money is over. A paradigm shift both in economics and in society as a whole is unavoidable. In an interview with Der Standard, he explains why we can cheerfully ignore banks, why the free markets are "bubble-producing machines for misuse by the elite" and why the entire system could collapse in the next three years.

der Standard.at: You are assuming that society and economics is going to completely change in the next few years. Has this system reached the end of its usefulness?

Franz Hörmann: Definitely and in every respect. This is because it is based on legal and economic models that go back to ancient Roman times. The system of interest dates back to the second millennium before Christ; double-entry booking to the 15th century. And there is no area in our societies or in the sciences where methods this old are still taken seriously. But they serve to keep our society's elite powerful and rich and that's why nothing changes.

der Standard.at: Will this crisis change the way we think?

Hörmann: I think so. The current crisis stems from the banks. The banks invent money as part of the credit creation process. But if you create money out of the air and then pass it on to others while adding interest to something that did not exist before and also make physical assets the collateral, then that is in reality a model for expropriation if the social model goes wrong. This is also the reason for bank secrecy rules. Banks are not in a position to reveal where the interest for savings books, property saving contracts and such like comes from and so show that it is all a complex pyramid scheme or ponzi game in reality.
 

This hidden expansion of the money supply began with double entry book keeping. If you buy a thing or object using money, then the money actually changes ownership. The seller has the money and the buyer has the thing or object.  From that moment on, the thing or object can no longer be evaluated in money terms if you take a theoretical perspective. Nevertheless, we put these sums of money onto balance sheets.

der Standard.at: Is it then a mistake to trust the banks and the financial system?

Hörmann: Trust has been systematically abused by the banks in the last few years. There is a model of systematic fraud in an institution that has been given a monopoly power to create money through credit in our economic system. As long as people go with their own capital to banks for security and they create real money out of air that serves as a medium of exchange, we have a problem. Capital is not money: it is a unit of counting. The active side of a balance sheet is calculated according to some set of rules or other and then the debts are subtracted. If I have a piece of wood that is three metres in length and cut out a two metre long piece, then I do not have a one metre piece; I have a difference. If I want a one metre long piece of wood, then I have to saw the two metres piece. In economic terms that means I have to liquidate the assets to get my cash. But the companies in the world today are all too broke to get much value from a liquidation. In addition, a nation cannot really go into debt. Just to whom should a state when seen as the sum of all its total money flows be in debt too? A state should produce its own money and in a grass-roots and democratic way actually.

der Standard.at : What about the rescue packages as in the case of Greece?

Hörmann: The European countries have not necessarily saved Greece but their own banks, and primarily the German banks, who have given absurd amounts of credit in this case. The way things hang together are also completely absurd if you consider the following. The state goes into debt to banks to pay the interest on the debts that it has with banks or to save a bank that it owes money to. No one understands anymore who has debts with whom and what the debts actually are.
der Standard.at : Do you think the system relevance of banks and the "too big to fail" argument as well as the bank rescue packages are just pure self interest?

Hörmann: The Too Big to Fail is a business model. There is proof banks are trying on purpose to make themselves too big to fail by taking over other banks. There are huge numbers of links between the financial world and the politics. In fact, you can t take governments that consist of current or former employees of the financial system seriously. There has been one courageous act, and that was to nationalize the capital of the Austrian National Bank and so to make the National Bank independent of the banks that they are supposed to be controlling.

But the monetary policy is made by the European Central Bank and not the Austrian National Bank. The bank rescue packages are the most incredibly funny things of all. The banks are not going to be saved. There is just a plan for the future which people even today know is not going to work because the money has to come from the upcoming "austerity budgets" by means of taxes, and the ciritzens have to be milked of cash. The banks are broke all around the globe. That is why we can cheerfully act as if they don't exist any more.

der Standard.at : But they are still there, no?

Hörmann: When it comes to credit, we can ignore them. In 1969 an American architect won a court case because he didn't want to repay his mortgage. He argued the legal point that when a thing was created as part of a loan that did not exist beforehand, this thing does not need to be repaid. In view of the fact that money comes into existence only in the process of credit creation there is no need to repay the credit. In the USA there are already citizen's movements that say to Americans that they should unite and not repay credit.

der Standard.at :  Let's get back to the balance sheets. The problem starts there already in your view?

Hörmann: The large sums used in balance sheets are not countable. If someone who buys a house for two million instead of one million because he negotiated poorly, does that person have more own capital? And if he finds someone who buys it for ten million is that then the market price? It is sick.

Fair Value [mark-to-market accounting which enables a company to book the value of an asset or a liability based on current market valuations or perceived changes in market valuations significantly from the historical cost method of asset valuation]  is also a model for fraud because it can has been seen to be misused by the use of money given as a money and straw men. Fair Value should be abolished once and for all. It is nothing other than the so called "market or ordinary value" [Gemeine Wert] which was eliminated from the German commercial law books at the end of the 19th century because it resulted in massive numbers of fraud when it came to the establishment of corporations. It is a blanket fraud by incorporated companies and banks in our economic system. But the political class can't admit that because they would need to turn to concepts that Marxists used to use in times goneby. And that would be too embarrassing. That said, it has, of course, to be noted that state socialism and the planned economy couldn't funciton because they really were terror regimes.

der Standard.at:   Right now there are more and more voices saying for example that the euro is going to disappear. Do we still need money?

Hörmann: All currencies are going to disappear because they can't technically function any more. In my opinion that could happen already in 2011. If we want to reach the safe shores of a society without money then we will need to have multidimensional money during the transition phase. We need several independent calculation circles in the form of specialised electronic coupons. In order to cover the basic needs of people such as a place to live, energy and food etc, conduct an inventory of all the resources available in a land and of the needs could be conducted. In that case, it would be necessary to divide the resources per person in such a way that the basic living standard for everyone is taken care of. The community has an obligation to support children, the elderly and the sick unconditionally and without expecting to get something back in return and everyone has to have access to the same basic living standard irrespective of their performance.

der Standard.at:  So we're talking about an basic income with conditions.

Hörmann:  Exactly. But not in money but in goods and services. When it comes to luxuries, society can then decide in a grass roots democratic way what prizes to give to individual or groups for achievements. For great ideas, for example, or for especially difficult and hard work. These incentives would then drive a system  that motivates people and is performance-orientated. Everyone talks about the performance society but income from interest and shares is not due to a performance or to any achievement, but is a renumeration for capital. Money which is a social construct anyway doesn't need to be orientated towards the dead matterial world, which was the practical manifestation of money in the centuries gone by. Money itself just has an information function.

der Standard.at:  We still take money very serious. Currency wars and currency crisis dominate the media.

Hörmann: The real scandal is that our whole money system is based on debts. That means that the creation of money occurs for up to 97% in commerical banks. That's how nations take up credit. The central banks do this by extending their balance sheets. But adding more digits to balance sheets does not produce money. The Chinese state bank also invents money out of air but amusingly enough without state debts being created. That's how we should do it. The Chinese economics expert Wu said at a lecture at an American university that he was often asked why so many new companies had been founded in China. The Chinese state bank gave credits for starting companies that did not carry interest and that didn't have to be repaid. Of course, you can only do that as a central bank if you book on just one side and don't at the same time create debts. And if you say: Heavens above, then what about inflation! The Chinese managed that by regulating prices and were the cleverer once more. No one wants to hear that because it goes against the dogma of the free market, which are the bubble producing machines for the elite to misuse.

der Standard.at: Is China really a model to be followed?

Hörmann: The Chinese do it in the right way. They pick out the cherries of both political systems and are clearly flexible enough to say: we will keep whatever functioned well in our old system. And we will take over whatever looks good in the capitalist systems. It is a mixed form that is also constantly changing and undergoing an evolution. For the elite in China it is simple as long as they can control it. Whether it is just as simple for the whole population, especially the agricultural workers, is another question.

der Standard.at: How do you see our economic system in the future?

Hörmann: As long as owners produce something so that consumers can buy it in return for money we will be heading into a system where the government, the producers of money, will have to pay consumers to go and buy. Only in that case will owners still be able to make profits. This is because no one is going to be able to make their liivng in ever more rationalised and automised work processes. We know that ten per cent of the working population in the meantime can no longer live from their salary. In reality, we should be happy about this. At the start of industrialisation, the number of working hours saved was the measuring stick used for economics. And exactly that unit is the only meaningful economic one.

der Standard.at:  Do you want a new world order?
Hörmann: Globalisation understood in the correct way means that there is no more politics based on location. There is only one location and that is our planet earth. And there is only one nation and that is humanity. That is, of course, diverse and people need to communicate in a loving and empathetic way with each other. We also have to pick up the representatives of the so-called Elite at that place where they are. We should not look for scapegoats.  Because we have to take into account their fears about what they will lose and say: you will lose something but that is only money on paper or something for display. And if you cooperate, then we can create every imaginable kind of living standard and for a broad section of the people. That creates security because there will be no more jealousy.

der Standard.at: What timeframe are you thinking for this new social order?

Hörmann: Three years.  The question is whether humanity manages to implement this concept in three years or whether it will exist at all. We have, of course, massive ecological and social problems. In many countries, we are just before a revolution.
der Standard.at: You are talking about the ultimate crash?

Hörmann: Right. Only society itself can decide how society is going to live in the future or wish to live and using the majority principle. That is happening in a democratic way through the creation of networks. Hierarchical structures cannot function from the point of view of the information theory because the people at the top of the pyramid don't have the knowledge. They are lied to permanently by the layers underneath. The method of the ordinary man on the street tries to protect himself from surveillance and harrassment is well known: lie to those in power. That's why numerous hierarchical systems, whether it is governments, states, school systems or companies are currently collapsing and humanity is connecting together on a new level over the internet, through the "global brain." Completely new game rules apply following the principle of emergence.
 
 
 
As for compound interest, remember that if you were to invest a single penny today at 7%, a thousand years later there would be so many pennies that they would form a planet the mass of Jupiter. (I'm not kidding. Do the calculations yourself, bearing in mind that a penny weighs about 2.5 grammes.) Remember that some projects – like some of Europe's biggest cathedrals – took almost a thousand years to finish!
 
=========================
 
 
 
Creating money to facilitate trade is not creating it out of thin air, and this is a notion we must get away from. Each of us can create personal currency in the form of an iou to a friend or associate. The cost is only the ink and the paper it's written on. The iou represents value already given/produced, half the transaction. We don't have to involve a private banker to write up the paperwork for us, have us sign it, and then charge us interest based on the time the iou is in circulation.

It is obvious with any money creation system that we must be careful about corruption of the principles involved. The current system of money creation as debt with interest is designed for one thing only - to ensure the flow of profits through the accounts of private bankers, with the end result being that they own all real property as well as the future earning power of the people. It is the same as any other shell game.

We now have the technical ability to track trade with electronic money, which would allow a relatively easy transition to mutual credit.

Donn
 
 
==========================================
 
Hi Dick
As a monetary reformer you may be interested in the solutions I've put forward in my blog. Comments would be welcome.

Cheers
David Boese

 
 
========================
 

From: RestoreUSA@aol.com

HOW MODERN "MONEY" GIVES AN ORGANIZED RULING MINORITY UNEARNED AND UNVOTED CONTROL OVER PEOPLE; • HOW COMPOUND "CREATION" INCREASES EMBEZZLEMENT POTENTIAL

 
 
=======================
China Nest Egg
 
The Fed's inflation of new debt-based dollar rescue "stimulus" is all going overseas where it is being impounded by China as an economic weapon that can visit total destruction on this land and people at the whim of Beijing.  Remember, the Money Power is about to implode us by dollar inflation ourside the country and extreme deflation at home (masked by monopoly price increases set by international corporations  -- but the fall in wages and rise in unemployment and the fall in total real consumer demand tells the story.)
 
 
FSK writes:
 
 
Aiming for stable exchange rates, other countries are also inflating their money.

Politicians in other countries value their exports to the USA. As dollar inflation occurs, prices of non-US goods rise relative to US-produced goods. To keep exports at the same level, the other country must also inflate.

Consider a factory owner in China. The factory exports to the USA, receiving dollars. The factory owner trades his dollars with China's government for newly-printed yuan. China's government merely holds the dollars, rather than buying tangible goods. The net effect is that the USA exports inflation to China. In effect, China's politicians are subsidizing the banksters in the USA.

Why are foreign bureaucrats so eager to export to the USA, in exchange for a piece of paper? That can't continue forever.

Foreign politicians are eager to manipulate exchange rates. When politicians do this, currency speculators say "Woohoo! Free money!" It's like the government is writing currency speculators a check, when politicians try to manipulate currency exchange rates.

How does inflation subsidize the banksters? Suppose the bank owns a $1M mortgage on a house currently worth $400k. That's a $600k loss. If there's 100% inflation, then it's a $1M mortgage on a house currently worth $800k, for a loss of only $200k. If there's 200% inflation, then the bank can sell the foreclosed house with money left over. In this manner, inflation helps bail out insolvent banks. The loans can be repaid with devalued money; the assets backing the loan is worth more.

The foreclosure process takes a year or two. Over time, inflation helps bail out the banksters. The bank is borrowing at the Fed Funds Rate of 0.25%, while inflation helps underwater loans become more solvent.

Banks don't care about the actual inflation rate. They borrow at the Fed Funds Rate and make loans, profiting from leverage and the interest rate spread and the yield curve. Right now, the banksters are borrowing at the Fed Funds Rate and buying Treasury debt. That's the reason the banks are make huge profits while the rest of the country is stuck in a recession/depression.

The current situation is pretty ridiculous. The USA is inflating to bail out the banksters. Other countries are inflating to keep stable exchange rates with the US dollar. It's a worldwide hyperinflation race.

 
================
 
 
Gerald Celente -- the gold hawker -- or rather, Rothschild's Dollar Buyer --  is at it again.
 
 Celente the "Profit From Doom"
 
10 banks now controlling 80% of economy as over 300 small banks sold off……

Financial institutions on Wall Street are preparing to pay a shocking record $144 billion dollars in compensation & benefits. This amid spiraling foreclosures and an economic crisis that has devastated Americans, leaving many out in the street. Gerald Celente of the Trends Research Institute says that the gap between rich and poor in the US will continue to get larger because of the bank bailout that Washington shelled out in 2008.

Prison planet (Alex Jones) presents Gerald Celente here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhRiVLUdx-M  (Don't by what Celente is selling you.  Any fool can diagnose that we are heading for doom  -- but Celente has no clue about what will save the day.  He is a cardboard economist  -- something like Ron Paul and Glenn Beck and Alex Jones.)

Eastman comment:  Celente is saying that doom must come.  That all "stimulus" is bad and putting purchasing power in the hands of households is just as much folly as putting it in the hands of Goldman-Sachs.  He claims, the Lew Rockwell and all libertarians and Austrian School economists that the collapse is necessary to purge all of the mal-investment caused by "inflation." (The theory comes from von Mises.)  He does not realize that good investments become bad investments when unexpected deflation comes along.  One does not have to wait for collapse while keeping steady on a deflationary course.  That is like medieval doctors bleeding patients in an effort to cure them.  What is really needed is to stop the deflation and to transfuse purchasing power directly to the heart of the economy where it is needed -- that heart being, not Wall Street, but the American household.  Only by direct boosting of household demand with fresh purchasing power that does not have to be paid back -- can American enjoy the speedy and complete recovery to abundand national health and vitality that we are all praying for.  Tell the sponsors of alternative media big shots you will not buy from their sponsers if they continue carrying that charlaton Gerald Celente -- but of course most of these guys are sponsored by gold dealers.  And let me remind you of this:  Betting on economic catastrophe by running to gold is betrayal of your country, your family, you  friends and yourself. Think of this:  It is Rothschild who is selling gold.  It is the international sector that is getting all of those dollars.  It is us that the goverment and the Fed are depriving of dollar purchasing power.  Does that sound to you like the Rothschilds are shorting the dollar? 
 
=================
 
 
 
 
 
 
I just posted this on my website:
 
Vapor Market Sweep

Vapor Market Sweep

There used to be a game show on TV that I'd watch from time to time. The name of the program was Supermarket Sweep.  There were two 2-person teams and the objective was within a limited period of time, to run around the supermarket filling a cart(s) with as much stuff as you could get in the cart.  The team with the highest dollar total won.  I think they won the value of the groceries plus a couple of hundred dollars.  Not much anyway.   I didn't watch it because I liked it so much.  I watched it to watch the people.  It was like a live-action character study of how people react when there is some "free" they can win. 

A variation of this game show seems to be the economic model that is being followed in the United States.  It's called Vapor Market Sweep.  The objective of the game is to sweep up all the hard assets of the country in exchange for vapor.  The pseudo environmentalist attorneys and financial engineers with their economic models set up the Vapor Market and the players who are aware of the game run through the market and load up their carts with the property and assets of their fellow citizens.  The players win when they get something for nothing.  They win when they've stripped the assets of the Marks in the market.   

Recently, at the University of Virginia, Miller Center, there was a forum of Central Bankers.  Paul Volcker was one of the participants.  At one point when he was asked to respond, in just a few minutes, he summed up the entire problem when he talked about the financial engineers shifting rents.   Click here for Volcker's brief clip.   Volcker knows that it's a scam, but it's just not socially acceptable in professional circles to call a thief a thief.

An example of both the rentier economy designed by the financial engineers and Vapor Market Sweep is found in this article about a presentation that "environmentalist" Zack Willey gave to Florida land owners on how to get money for nothing.  Who is paying them?   The consumers of electricity.  Of course the people who run the Vapor Market take a skim off the top of the money stolen from the consumers of electricity with the balance going to the "Lords of the Land" for being clever enough to own a few trees. 

               

Landowners Introduced to Benefits
of a Reduced Carbon Economy

September 5, 2007
Jay Liles
Florida Wildlife Federation

Tallahassee, FL. – For generations farmers and other large landowners have relied on their crops to return a profit. At a recent conference, sponsored by the Florida Wildlife Federation, Environmental Defense and Tall Timbers Research Station, noted economist Zach Willey brought what he thinks is a new source of income to local farmers and those who own tracts of land in timber.

Landowners, developers and environmentalists listened to Willey's presentation on the future of using agriculture to reduce greenhouse emissions, and using carbon credits as a commodity in Florida.

Willey said using large tracts of forested land that naturally transform carbon dioxide into oxygen may come to be a $100 million industry in Florida. Energy companies would reimburse property owners based on the amount of carbon dioxide their land can absorb.

Willey is a senior economist for Environmental Defense and leading researcher on the emerging carbon capture markets. Dr. Willey splits his time between consulting duties here in the United States and newly emerging industrial giants like China and Southeast Asia. Environmental Defense – a nonprofit organization that helps businesses and communities find environmental solutions – has hired Dr. Willey to introduce agricultural landowners to the potential in the reduced carbon economy.

"Landowners can achieve a new source of income and, therefore, increase the value of their land. The very first step is having a land owner in Florida know this is an option," Willey said. "It's great for both the power sector and the agriculture, so it's good for the economy."

"People are holding their land in conservation and agriculture because they want to keep a vital part of Old Florida," said Jay Liles of the Florida Wildlife Federation. "Doing so could become a profitable alternative to development".

Because carbon sequestration is most applicable to large tracts of forested land, the strategy is optimal for regions like North Florida, Liles said. He added North Florida may benefit financially, but sequestration would serve the entire state by reducing the impacts of climate change and ocean rise.

Mike Joyner, the St. Joe Vice-President for Environmental Affairs, was one of more than 45 people who attended the conference. The St. Joe Company, one of North Florida's biggest developers and landowners, has looked into carbon sequestration for the past year, he said. A majority of St. Joe's 740,000 acres are in the North Florida.

"We're trying to get an idea of how much carbon our forests are sequestering now," Joyner said. St. Joe will wait to see if legislation at the state or federal level is enacted before making a final decision on carbon sequestration, he said.

"Today has been very good," Joyner said. "Willey has a national reputation in this area".

Here is a link to the presentation at the bottom of the article:

Carbon Credits as a Marketable Forest Commodity

 

             
 

Crooked lawyers set up the scams using whatever "worthy cause" suits the con game.  In our legal system, we have a maxim that it's better for a hundred guilty men to go free than to imprison one innocent man.  In the case of our legal system itself and in particular with lawyers and judges, the new maxim should be that it's better for a hundred innocent men to be taken  down than it is for one guilty man to go free.  The only reform this country needs is to flush the legal system of the crooks and to return to a system of plain language and honest dealings. 

Of course there is no end to the number of people who will play the game of getting something for nothing.  In the hoity toity language of professionals, the set ups for the theft are called "moral hazards".  The scenarios are set up by the thieving lawyers and the "risks" of the "moral hazards" are calculated.  It's like calculating the odds of a goldfish surviving in a tank of piranhas.  And after it's over, it's always, "Whoops... our bad.... Just didn't see it coming...   lessons learned". 

They are bringing our economy and our country down with these con games and widespread theft.  And if it isn't stopped soon, we will all be slaves on the land - paying "rents" to the fat ass landowners who were smart enough to own a few trees but who produce nothing. 

And I almost forgot to say the above article shows why an "honest money" system isn't this country's biggest problem.  If we did have an honest money system, you'd be paying silver and gold for vapor instead of T-Paper federal reserve notes.    
 

Vicky Davis
October 14, 2010
  

Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010
 
Management of the Labor Market

 
I was digging around through the files on my website and found a webpage I did for the Idaho Eagle Forum website that I did about 5 or 6 years ago.  In doing that, I found an article written Jim Day of the St. Louis Metro Voice.  He was writing about the Workforce Investment Act of 1998.   The implementation of what he wrote about is what I called "Trojan Triangles".   When you hear politicians talking about funding for "small business", they are talking about providing funding for Trojan Triangle business/classrooms for "training". 
 
I had to recover it from the Wayback.  It's a very important article to read because he was completely on top of it: 
 
 
 
Here is the original page I did on the Workforce Investment Act of 1998 
 

 
==================
 
Interview with
 
Bob Taft writes:
 
 
Can the ruling elite switch control of this game to their advantage.  They'll do all they can to do so, even to sacrificing their current puppet in order to foment a horrendous race war, followed by martial law and the detention camps, to steal attention from the real war that should involve us all.

In the recent Athens riots, everyone got involved, including the firemen, except for the local police.  They started burning down banks, unfortunately producing three fatalities.  I can think of nothing more symbolic to the cause of Freedom, than starting fires inside numerous national bank buildings, including the Fed banks, and most anything on Wall Street, while the firemen take the day off.  What better message might this send to bank thieves everywhere, and to our political parasites as well. 

As much as I dislike "democracy" and all that mob rule implies, here's one instance where it would be interesting to see the mob get off its apathy, and take control away from those who oppress us all.


Best regards,.
Bob Taft
The Taft Ranch
Upton, Wyoming
(307) 465-2447
"We hang  the petty thieves and appoint
the great ones to public office." Aesop
http://www.freedomclubusa.com/the_tun
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=74897

        Just got this from an old friend who lives in Europe.  (Formerly with BBC).  (L o n g  but extremely good. E)

"The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy"

 

         The premise for this outstanding essay is what I have been saying for years.  What we are experiencing here is not one of those intermittent financial storms that come and go like a summer thundershower.  No, there will be no recovery.   This is financial war and the goal is the destruction of both the so-called middle class, and the constitutional republic (or what is left of it) that this nation once represented.  

 

       The banksters (almost entirely from Europe) are playing for all the marbles boys and girls.  They have been getting ready for this day for literally many generations.  If you have any wealth to protect, you need to listen to this author very carefully.  Of course that will require some absence from NASCAR and the Stuporvision.  Then take whatever steps are necessary to protect your rights and your property----if that can be done at this late date. 

 

       And don't for a minute think this is about politics.   If you still think this is a liberal/conservative/republican/democrat problem, then go back to the stuporvision.

You are locked into a mind shrinking trap, and you will probably never figure this out      

 

       Right now, I would say we are in the Ninth Inning.  Maybe the bottom of the Ninth.

 

 

Opposing viewpoint:
 
 
> Conspiracy theorist Dick Eastman is another hate-filled
> whiner Rense found under a rock. 
> Dick is a notorious anti-Semite, 9-11 truther and all-around
> extremist whacko. He hypocritically tosses mention of the
> Sermon on the Mount, but if you reasearch his blog you find  
> he is a Latter Day Masonic Luciferian sexist homophobe 
> and fear monger, who can't control unloading diaper
> after diaper of his vituperation on what he calls "Judeo
> -pornographic society." 
> His role models are Jospeh Smith, Joe McCarthy,
> Richard Nixon, and that father-image hero that
> fascist underachievers like Dick are always caving, the
> masked **Lone Ranger** of the TV westerns he watched
> as a child and  still watches as a child.
> Eastman promises all of his stolen ideas will put a new Buick
> in everyone's garage, but the best his brain can deliver is a beat
> up clunker jerryrigged with a lunatic perpetual motion 
> hot air engine that burns free paper money extracted from the
> hot air of his very thin arguments. 
> While there are a lot of good people around arguing responsibly
> for basic monetary reform, this neo-Nazi pin head is certainly
> not one of them. 
 
 
 
(The above paragraph is disinformation.  I wrote it myself for my own morbid amusement.  That's how it really should be done.  If only it was honest work  -- I would apply for the job.)

   

Populist Nationalist Social Credit Brotherhood of American Citizen Peacemakers of All Races and Creeds  -- This is our Common Ground!!!

 

Social Credit to the rescue! 

 
__._,_.___

Palash Biswas
Pl Read:
http://nandigramunited-banga.blogspot.com/

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